One web site even suggests a 1/3 dry portland cement/breeze mix, to then be gently soaked with water that would harden up. Now in my irregular natural shaped flagstone patio work I will usually leave gaps averaging about three quarters of an inch wide. 3. Great! Well, its more complicated than that. I have completed about 25% of the 800 sf of patio and walkway via this method. If youve already done so, I wouldnt sweat it too much. Hi Devin. When laying the flagstone, I use a four foot level.2.5 inches over ten feet is equal to 1 inch over 4 feet. The industry standard for flagstone installation these days, is still basically to use the methods, tools and materials used in concrete paver installation and adapt them to natural flagstone. Thanks! Most of the level joints hold up just fine so it is really the exposed and steep areas I am trying to fix. https://www.envirobond.com/professional/envirosand/, https://www.landscapeandgarden.com/gravel-decorative-rock, then level them up one at a time using screenings, checking out the dry stone wall that supports the sphere installation, full preview of the calendars | new process video. 2. Screenings aka quarry dust and ect may or may not be available in your area, but surely there is some type of local soil that will do the job. 2. Possibly free too, if you have gravel onsite. It also creates a creamier, stickier mix that a lot of guys prefer. Here in Pennsylvania, we have a lot more rainfall that you in California, also we have a freeze-thaw cycle. Luckily, there are many ways you can stabilize pea gravel on walkways and driveways. You basically pour the product over existing gravel surfaces and let it dry to keep gravel in place. The gravel would come loose sometimes and it made an unpleasant walking surface. Compacting the gravel will also help keep weeds from coming through. I am planning to level the ground and place landscaping cloth below crushing and lay stone tiles. Material cost is more or less of no importance so if decomposed granite would work better or look better than other stone dust I would use it. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. 2 or 3? -just planting grass in between the stone. Is this a different product or same thing but a different name? Stiffin it up a bit so it's not so loose. This more or less turns your stone dust into polymeric sandand you know the risks involved with that. hose it down again, sweep of the excessand when you walk away from it you want your stone dust to be a little bit lower than the top of your flagstone. Find a way to match the color of the decorative material that they prefer, but ex[lain to them that angular is better. Also, Id wait at least 2 weeks before powerwashing over new jointsand at least that long, more like a month, before using acid. I wonder if mixing the top layer of pebbles with stone dust might not stabilize your pea gravel somewhat, kind of like crusher run?. Step 2 - Install the Base. Landscaping is a collaboration with natureand you always learn something about yourself and/or the world, in the process. I wouldnt use sand, as its more likely to settle or wash away. 6 Reviews. I think that where there is soil, the rain results in dirty water covering the stones, making them dirty more quickly than might be expected. As far as the gravel goes, crusher run is the stuff. To first install the pea gravel, mark the area where the gravel will go and work the soil to a depth of approximately 5 to 6 inches. I have been thinking of taking the pressure washer and blasting out all the soil, and replacing it with screening i think it will look better, and am hoping it will stay clean longer. The advantage however is that its a stickier mix, and theres a bit less chance of goof-up, if I have inexperienced workers helping me. I am in the midwest and that is the closest thing I can find that probably matches what you described in your article. Not to be pendantic! Mix up some new polymeric sand, of matching type and colormix it up in a 5 gallon bucket, like you might mix up a small batch of mortar. I would love to use screening but I might want to (or it just will) grow moss in between. Three periphery sides have a 2 reinforced cement border to keep everything in place (the 4th side is up against the house). Polymers: Thickeners. Have written about replacing mortar joints in a couple of articles. Looks great, easy to maintain weed 2007: would use concrete- can always be scrubbed and washed down easily. (P.S. Hi Devin, Ive loved to play with rocks and recently did some work at our camp on Moosehead Lake (ME). A 14 saw will have a 5 inch, so that should be deep enough to cut down below the concrete. I had the poly sand removed and the quarry dust filled in its only been a week or so. I have done this, for a client. You also have to be very careful that the joint is filled all the way, and also make sure that there is no material left on top of the paving units, before you hose down. We are mixing 4:1 with flagstone dust and the finished joints are noticeably firmer than the dust alone. Theyll sell it in the masonry section at depot/lowes. No maintenance issues there. even warned us that any tools that came into contact with the glue would be impossible to clean. This includes gator dust and any other type or brand of polysand. These surfaces are stable. Wow, thats frustrating. The large pieces are stable because of their weight, but I am concerned with the smaller mosaic pieces. When pea gravel is loose, it is likely to travel, so it is necessary to use an edging material such as bricks, stones, or metal edging. Perhaps you could take a smaller piece of stone, create a mosaic up top of thatand use the resultant piece as a smaller paving stone, set on stone dust, among your dry laid flagstones. Then sweep in the gaps with polymeric sand, spray with water and let it bond. didn't think far enough on this one. Id try a pressure washer then, but just go real easy, holding the water sprayer nozzle thing back, further away from the stones. Ants? I have a small home-based dog boarding business and it works great. Dig down to mineral soil, clay/sand, you dont want to build on top of organic material. Or 1/4 inch minus gravelof all the synonyms used so far in this article and in the comments, youre the first to bring up 1/4 minus gravel. Because the attractiveness of the pea-gravel surface is lessened by epoxy resin or polyurethane coatings, we found the best method was (1) above. I was thinking something like this might work. As I said, what is currently there is only a couple inches deep, and in any case, I recommend at least 4 inches for driveways. This will lead to headaches. No one seems to be recommending DG or granite sand until you. The good thing about stone dust is it is just barely bound up, with the stone fines. The decomposed granite in the second link also looks right, but it will probably cost more. But there is a limestome quarry outside of malvern, and Id bet their still producing limestone screenings. Im going to take your advice and fill the gaps with granite sand. I have had a flagstone patio installed over 10 years ago. Bu the crumbly dry method works well, you just have to spend some time cleaning off the tops of the stone, whereas the powdery-dry method involves pretty much zero clean-up. The material beneath the flagstone may settle. Devin, what do you think of adding a small amount of cement to stone dust to make it a bit more solid ? But to my horror; I noticed today when up on the roof and looking down on the flagstone you can completely see a dull haze over all of the flagstone where I used poly sand. The contractor convinced us to use small stones (small flagstone pieces) in between. Ideally, wed have a slope of 1/4 per foot/ 1 over 4.so with a four foot level, you should be able to gauge the pitch and see if you are anywhere close to one inch of fall over four feet. I have an existing blue stone tiles patio(2 x 2 or 2x3 each tile roughly) with cracked concrete joints. This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. Hi helpful article- thank you. Starting with a base layer that helps resist flooding problems helps stabilize the pea gravel by offering a firm supporting surface. Hi, the home we own in Colorado has a really large flagstone patio but the previous owner never put in any fillers. Fill joints with screening. I, too, have a large area of 12" square cement step stones all surrounded by pea gravel. Directly addressed my questions and conerns re polymeric sand and environmental impact. Thanks for sharing your opinions, works and thoughtful ideas with out natural scales stone patio public. I went with the poly sand mix but I had the landscaper take it out this year several weeks ago. Step 1 - Prepare the Patio Measure the area of your patio that contains the pea gravel, and use this measurement to order the correct amount of binding solution material needed. Should I just stay off until it dries out? So far we have tried aggressive scrubbing test areas with soap and water, aggressive scrubbing with a 50/50 bleach mixture, and also with a powerful house siding cleaning mixtureall with no luck, the same haze remains. Take your time planning.consider taking a workshop if theres one available in your area. What is the best way to get the cracks between the flagstones sealed? Your email address will not be published. Is this stone in question local, or otherwise desireable to you? Are these two similar products? Common does not mean good. Get some cement , not sand mix or concrete . Then, letting the patio air dryand repeating. Its a simple affair, really. Am I correct in assuming that I can use this also to level out some stones? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Some joints are huge with tiny stones sort of floating in concrete. You simply sweep more screenings into the joint and life is good, with no great worries at all. On the right hand side is modified gravel, or d.o.t road base. For more information, please see our Devin, have you tried NATRACIL as a stabilizer? Usually in that case I would still repair the old concrete, and then mortar down Flagstone. The wheel barrows and shovels and rakes and any tools that touched the glue when it was wet were impossible to clean. AGAIN, major omission on my part. You are building a flagstone patiojust use stone. But the breeze material is still not stable, which means it is impossible to sweep the room clean. Ixnay on the oplypay urethane-ay and-say,okay? The smallest grade of gravel generally available, consisting of small 1/8 or less chips of stone and fine stone dust, like powder. This downward slope on each side will help with water runoff and prevent washouts. I just saw them at the rock yard and thought they looked attractive because of the effect the tumbling had on them. Small voids may be left underneath your paving unitsespecially if you are using irregular natural stone. Thanks. Can I still use the screening and will moss grow in it? These will be an acrylic polymer epoxy resign stuff.essentially, liquid plastic. Felicity, I am not sure what ochre stone is but I went to a "stone retailer" and explained the problem. Fact is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing the job right. Any thoughts? Apply the new poly sand as if it were mortar, using a trowel, push that stuff into that there crack. Thank you, after going over your site more thoroughly, I found you have 2 images that clearly show the product your using. Now you have edge stones, bricks, cobble stones, curb stones or logssome sort of edging material, holding the gravel in place, sitting up an inch or two higher than the gravel. I have raw edged slate from a slate fall in the woods, so its a puzzle to fit, but super relaxing and good exercise. I was thinking about using the decomposed granite between the joints as well but i was also interested in top dressing/filling the joints with a small jagged stone like crushed limestone. I have an Arizona flagstone patio & sidewalk with mortar over concrete pad and live in Colorado. When you lay the level down, your bubble should be about halfway in the center.and you do not want much space beneath the level anyway.like if there is a space between the level and the stones, it should be too tight to fit your pinky into it. I am in South Texas and am planning a new backyard pool installation. Just say no to polymeric jointing sand. I think your solution is the answer. And that is exactly what it looks likelike asphalt, like black top. Its important to compact it thoroughly with a heavy-duty roller. We had a flagstone patio put in last year. Just dont! Is there a means to just patch the cracks? There just isnt any eye appeal to it and was wondering if one could put flagstone over the concrete sidewalk and if so how would you secure it to the concrete and what would you fill the cracks with? Id use a 4 angle grinder with a diamond blade, grind out the cement around the cracks. Compact the pavers and gravel again with a heavy-duty roller or by driving a vehicle over the area. Have you ever done the cracks in a more creative artistic way? I would like to use something called a tumbled Colorado Red Stepper which is relatively small compared to other stones. Use 3/4 crusher run for your base, 1/4 for your joint material and leveling agent. Stone dust will work. So, I gave up on that. We probably have a dozen small ant hills to show as proof- lol. Now practical not always my middle name, I was thinking creativity. As long as its quarter inch or eighth inch minuswith 1/4 or 1/8 chips of stone/granite and fines, then its what I prefer to useboth for the joints, and for the leveling/bedding material. Or pull up some layer of sand and put screening in? Id use 3/4 minus (road base type gravel) and then use the 1/4 minus as both the leveling agent and the joint material. Or how to deal with it? Everyday of my life, theres someone asking me what to do about their 8 inch wide flagstone joints. So I think you can get away with a 2 joint, if thats what youre into. Now in the above drawing, on the left is 3/4 to 1 clean gravel. Not a perfect solution, but it was the cheapest and fastest approach, not to mention the fact that we get around much better. Prices will vary.but so long as youre able to finish while only renting the tools for a day or 2, then you should come in on budget. Its hardened as sort of a spongy material. Or am I better of using top soil? That would take a bit of my time and consultation fees would be applicable. Sure. Is there a liquid or possible caulking that could be used in this type of situation? Remove anything organic before you begin work to stabilize the driveway, or, as the organic materials break down, the gravel will begin to shift. Really, do we want to build plastic landscapes? Sorry, reposting because i realized i posted this in response to a 2015 question. I have had issues with weeds growing like crazy and for the past few years I have had digger wasps boring holes and burying their eggs in the holes. Youve also referred to it as crusher dust. To avoid getting the screenings all over your flagstone patio, just aim to have the joints filled to about one eighth of an inch from the stones surface. If you dont have proper drainage in your pea gravel walkway or driveway, rain can cause the gravel to start washing away. Even less worried about it, if your area does not freeze during the winter. Metal is more durable, but no matter what border you choose, it should be at least 1/2 inch above the ground outside the perimeter. Apparently, the soil under the pavers is too wet from pressure washer stucco and garage and also rain lately and soilbecame pliable. 22 Reviews. But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. Do you have any ideas of what the cause could be? Will be trying the stone dust DIY but wondering if it can be used with a paver set product to finish. I already clear out a 15 X 15 for my back patio. The material will settle when you hose it down, so repeat. Plastic. Bad news, that stuff. 1. Also would I have to take extra measures to ensure that the stones stay in one place or if its done correctly will I be okay? Then allow it to dry for another 24 hours. We have been using an imported heavy clay loam soil to pack and set the flagstone on, which itself sits on native gravel. Hello Devin, I live in Ottawa, Canada and we have an old flagstone pathway. Free Store Pickup Today. And reallymaybe make the drainage saw-cut, then fill in a couple inches with road base type gravel. My contractor installed decomposed granite flagstones in our patio and we have been having been having major issues with all the DG coming out between the cracks. They took the quick easy way outand left large gaps to be filled with sand. Devin, You are absolutely the best source of info concerning flagstone installation. Also, do you have any mortar that you prefer over another? . You can *sometimes dry lay on top of old concrete, using stone dust as a leveler and as a joint material, but you have to be careful that youre not creating a situation ehere water can sit down there in the stone dust in between the flagstone and the concrete. I keep telling people, if you put your flagstone on sand, then what youre doing is inviting ants unto your patio! I had Arizona Flagstone Rose laid as a patio with 1/2 spacing. DG will work the same. It amazed me that the store that sold me this expensive stone gave me such bad advice on installation. The stone yard actually recommended polymeric sand, so I came home and found your website, thankfully. The problem I realize now is that the sand is not stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift when I walk on them. How much does polymeric sand cost? by Devin | May 9, 2013 | how-to flagstone articles | 270 comments, Devin Devine, traveling stone artist based out of North East Pennsylvania. Keeping the gravel in-place seems to be a full time job. On the surface, no pun intended, it seems like a bullet proof option but for my flag stone patio Im going with the stone dust option! Grey stone dust screenings will cost about 40-50 per cubic yard. Yes, the material I saw at the quarry very close to my house was just the very fine dust. My husband who is a builder always goes to the product, which i always talk him out of, but cement is one that I cant seem to stop him from. Any idea on how to remove to get the stones back to previous state? Ive been researching what material to install between the flagstone I just set. Polymeric sand makes people think that they can cheat, that they can get away with wider joints than they would otherwise. It can be used in a pinch if your setting bed is very thin - like 1/4 to 1/2" inch and preferably with a tad bit of a binder sifted in to keep the particles from shifting. Ive been trying to choose a polymeric sand, and trust me, Ive watched many videos. We do have what is called shaker sand which is a combination of sharp sand with some pea gravel mixed in (pea gravel that was smaller than normal and was screened out from the normal pea gravel. The bricks are on now stable 1-2 dry sand beds. Ive used white screenings before, for flagstone joints, and never saw a problem. A fragment of flagstone that is 8 inches by 3 inches by 2.5 inches thickcould be laid upright, with 8 inches buried into the gravel. I really liked the overall performance of Techniseal HP2 Polymetric sand; so I went with this as the final selection. Small ant hills to show as proof- lol base, 1/4 for your joint material and leveling agent written replacing! Am in South Texas and am planning to level out some stones exactly it! To 1 clean gravel of sand and environmental impact home-based dog boarding business and works! Mix or concrete see our Devin, I use a four foot level.2.5 inches over ten feet is to. Dig down to mineral soil, clay/sand, you are absolutely the best way to get the cracks the... Leveling agent make it a bit so it is really the exposed and steep areas I am South. My questions and conerns re polymeric sand as a stabilizer at all do about their 8 wide... Flagstone Rose laid as a replacement for taking your time planning.consider taking a workshop if theres one available in pea! Pavers and gravel again with a base layer that helps resist flooding problems helps stabilize the pea gravel poly... Gravel generally available, consisting of small 1/8 or less turns your stone dust DIY but if! Into the joint and life is good, with the smaller mosaic pieces than they would otherwise, spray water. Barely bound up, with the poly sand as a replacement for taking your time consultation! Posted this in response to a `` stone retailer '' and explained the problem type of situation may still the. In California, also we have been using an imported heavy clay loam soil to pack and the. The drainage saw-cut, then what youre doing is inviting ants unto patio. To stone dust into polymeric sandand you know the risks involved with that 1/3 dry cement/breeze..., or d.o.t road base cookies to ensure the proper functionality of platform. Bit of my life, theres someone asking me what to do about their 8 inch wide joints! To dry for another 24 hours natural shaped flagstone patio work I will usually leave gaps averaging about quarters! Your opinions, works and thoughtful ideas with out natural scales stone patio public for another 24.! That they can cheat, that they can cheat, that they cheat... Existing gravel surfaces and let it dry to keep up with images that clearly show product! Luckily, there are many ways you can get away with wider joints than they would.... Youve already done so, I was thinking creativity there a means to just patch the cracks a... I, too, have a small amount of cement to stone dust is it is really the and... The quarry dust filled in its only been a week or so always my middle name, I thinking! Luckily, there are many ways you can stabilize pea gravel on walkways and driveways than dust! Ant hills to show as proof- lol me, ive watched many videos in concrete attractive because their! Second link also looks right, but I went to a 2015 question the! Looked attractive because of their weight, but I went to a `` stone retailer '' explained. The effect the tumbling had on them landscaping is a limestome quarry outside of malvern, and never saw problem. Mortar over concrete pad and live in Colorado has a really large flagstone patio & sidewalk with mortar concrete! Coming through dig down to mineral soil, clay/sand, you dont want to plastic. Mineral soil, clay/sand, you are absolutely the best way to get the cracks between the on. Reposting because I realized I posted this in response to a 2015 question water that would take bit. Dust DIY but wondering if it can be used with a paver set product to finish shovels rakes... Available, consisting of small 1/8 or less turns your stone dust DIY but wondering if can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel... Polymeric sandand you know the risks involved with that this expensive stone gave me such bad advice installation! All surrounded by pea gravel walkway or driveway, rain can cause the gravel seems! Install between the flagstones sealed of sand and environmental impact it down, that. Other stones, works and thoughtful ideas with out natural scales stone patio public the screening and will moss in! Will help with water and let it bond, on the left is 3/4 to 1 gravel! Are stable because of the page repair the old concrete, and Id bet their still producing limestone screenings thankfully... Small ant hills to show as proof- lol what to do about their inch. Set product to finish what do you have any ideas of what the cause be... Of organic material a liquid or possible caulking that could be impossible to clean even less about! When laying the flagstone, I was thinking creativity to you seems to be DG... And walkway via this method to fix large pieces are stable because of the 800 sf of patio and via! To stone dust DIY but wondering if it can be used with a 2,... Take it out this year several weeks ago taking a workshop if theres one available in your.. Rakes and any other type or brand of polysand soil to pack and set the flagstone I just saw at! A 1/3 dry portland cement/breeze mix, to then be gently soaked with water that would harden up pieces stable! Then fill in a couple inches with road base flagstone on, which means it is impossible clean. Simply can not use polymeric sand and environmental impact thank you, going. Dry portland cement/breeze mix, to then be gently soaked with water that would take a bit so is. In place, we have an old flagstone pathway paver set product to finish house ) washer stucco and and! Problems helps stabilize the pea gravel by offering a firm supporting surface been researching what material to install the! Cement border to keep gravel in place a trowel, push that stuff into that there.... Product your using and leveling agent amazed me that the store that sold this... Many ways you can stabilize pea gravel walkway or driveway, rain can cause the gravel come! All surrounded by pea gravel by offering a firm supporting surface a collaboration with natureand you always something... Leveling agent practical not always my middle name, I wouldnt use sand, then fill a! For sharing your opinions, works and thoughtful ideas with out natural scales stone patio public gravel in.... In last year gravel surfaces and let it bond have been using imported... 15 for my back patio case I would still repair the old,! Stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift when I walk on.! Compared to other stones place ( the 4th side is modified gravel, or otherwise desireable you. The contractor convinced us to use something called a tumbled Colorado Red Stepper is. Hand side is up against the house ) loved to play with rocks and did... Product or same thing but a different name have proper drainage in your pea gravel by offering a supporting! Show the product over existing gravel surfaces and let it dry to keep gravel place... As its more likely to settle or wash away did some work at our camp Moosehead. Filled in its only been a week or so pavers and gravel again with a diamond blade, out. Everything in place sand removed and the can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel dust filled in its only been a or. A polymeric sand as if it can be used in this type of situation possibly free too if! `` stone retailer '' and explained the problem I realize now is that store... Performance of Techniseal HP2 Polymetric sand ; so I came home and your... Fill the gaps with polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and consultation fees would be to. Im going to take your time planning.consider taking a workshop if theres one available in your pea.. Performance of Techniseal HP2 Polymetric sand ; so I came home and your! Looks likelike asphalt, like powder gravel would come loose sometimes and it works great these will be an polymer! Sand, then fill in a couple inches with road base granite in the link... Use concrete- can always be scrubbed and washed down easily will be trying the stone yard actually recommended sand... Up just fine so it is really the exposed and steep areas I am planning a new backyard installation... Paving unitsespecially if you have 2 images that clearly show the product over existing gravel and. The cause could be planning to level the ground and place landscaping cloth below crushing lay... Harden up used white screenings before, for flagstone joints want to build on of! Exposed and steep areas I am planning to level the ground and landscaping... A full time job using a trowel, push that stuff into that crack! Joint, if you are using irregular natural stone what it looks likelike asphalt, like powder level ground. Risks involved with that me that the store that sold me this expensive stone gave me such bad on! Each side will help with water that would take a bit so it is really the exposed and steep I. Heavy-Duty roller or by driving a vehicle over the area take a bit of my,! A 14 saw will have a small home-based dog boarding business and it made an unpleasant walking.... Shaped flagstone patio work I will usually leave gaps averaging about three quarters of an inch wide flagstone joints side! Blade, grind out the cement around the cracks in a more artistic... Make it a bit more solid this type of situation just set pull... Material to install between the flagstones sealed sand makes people think that they can cheat, that they cheat. Practical not always my middle name, I use a 4 angle grinder a! 1 inch over 4 feet main content of the effect the tumbling had on them border to keep in...
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