saginaw m1 carbine markings

To get better and faster responses and opinions. The barrel markings are well defined. The latter looks like what you find on captured and refurbished German P-38 pistols that were made matching by manual application of an electric scribe. To strengthen the stock where the bridge had previously been located the wood of the type V This M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection. PA 19301, SOLD - Sauer M30 Luftwaffe Survival Drilling - Capture Papers, SOLD - 1939 Mauser Banner Police Luger Rig - 2 Matching Magazines, Signed - Limited Edition Broomhandle Pistol Book 1 of 100, SOLD - 1908 DWM "Bulgarian Contract" Luger Pistol, SOLD - Early Production "Gas Trap" Garand, M-1, SOLD - SS Contract SS PPK - K Under -Matching Magazine. A few very late stocks used with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the forend. Barrel Date: March, 1943, Action Type:Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. If a Saginaw S'G' strip it down to see if it has any IP Irwin Peterson parts, could be a transitional carbine. The barrel is marked "SAGINAW S.G. DIV. until Ordnance arranged for additional barrel manufacturers. Another word of caution is that brand new reproduction carbine stocks have been produced within the past couple of years. While there is no substitute for experience when examining a carbine, there are several things to look for that can give valuable clues as to the originality (or lack thereof) of a particular carbine. for you to submit by CLICKING HERE. The U.S. Carbine Caliber .30 Stock Group Wood & Finish Walnut Birch The two most common types of wood used for Caliber .30 Carbine stocks and handguards were American Black Walnut and Yellow Birch. The store will not work correctly in the case when cookies are disabled. The barrel is stamped UNDERWOOD on the top of the barrel behind the front sight. Type and code markings notwithstanding, a slide that shows little or no evidence of having been fired should not be found in a carbine that has seen extensive use. They show light scrapes & areas of discoloration from oxidation. Probably the quickest way to determine if a carbine remains in its as issued World War II configuration is to examine a few key parts. These marks have been oiled. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B Normally, sanded and refinished wood is quite easy to spot. No specific manufacture dates are listed due to a number of reasons explained on pages 24 to 26 of Scott Duffs book, The M1 Carbine Owners Guide. Many of the marks have damaged small portions of the surface wood. Common sense will dictate that a well used stock would not have pristine stock markings. The bolt is marked IP on the right lug which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 36). Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. The Underwood barrel is original. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Specific M1 Carbine Contractor Discussions. The Type I rear sight is marked with a partial S on the left, RP on the right, and RP on the front of the aperture which are Irwin-Pedersen marks (page 29). The right side of the butt is marked with a crossed cannons cartouche and SG in a box which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 124). Barrel and receiver marked with Inland (barrel manufacturer for Saginaw) 4-44. A. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Some restorers have attempted to file down the sight base to reduce or eliminate the punch marks but this normally requires reparkerizing to hide the work. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. another state. The magazine release is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 100-101). As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. Make:Saginaw SG. The magazine is marked I-P-K upside down which is an Irwin-Pedersen mark not listed in our source material (page 142 -143). American Black Walnut heartwood can range from a lighter pale brown to a dark chocolate brown with darker brown streaks. 15 round magazines: Originally packed 100 to a case, with cardboard dividers and separate wrapping papers for each magazine--usually a brown or reddish heavy wax paper. 3?7XXXX ? The markings on the then allowed to dry. These receivers were purchased by Winchester. Black Cherry darken with age and are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut. During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. Any opinions on how rare/popular collector is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine? Generally speaking, there is nothing wrong with a competently restored carbine,ifthe fact it has been restored is passed along to a subsequent purchaser and the weapon is priced accordingly. Stocks with a lighter color were treated with a dark stain, most notably Birch. Because of this popularity, testing and use of the carbine for purposes well beyond it's original design became fairly common. If you just purchased it you know the "value", if acquired some other way a picture would be necessary to give you a good idea. XA27, XA62, XD14). Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. We get the FFL from your store others make you find it, copy it, and fax it. SOLD - Factory Chrome Walther PPK - Rare. We can be contacted at the following e-mail address. The varnish is a little thin around the sling cutout. Sent the OP some pictures of an all S'G' I had listed here last year, didn't get a single request for pictures from members, and asked two questions but had no reply. Each prime contractor was assigned a code letter: Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be expected to have all R coded parts. annual growth rings, giving Birch a somewhat dull, uniform appearance. This is not the case because, as stated, as some contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces during the war. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. The rebuilt rifles are identifiable from the markings left by the companies that rebuilt them. The hammer is marked SG which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 89). It is only fair that some context of time be added to such comments. If you're looking for a high-value low-power variable optic that just plain performs, SIG Sauer has a great option at an affordable price with its Tango MSR LPVO scope. Serial numbered receivers transferred were not restricted to a certain block of serial numbers. The edge of the buttplate is marked PM-IPwhich is an Irwin-Pedersen mark(page 111). It must not be inferred that if a carbine has a round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, it has been altered. Doing so may alter It is in great shape. This is not an accurate means of estimating the date the carbine was finally assembled or when it passed its final inspection. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones produced at the original Saginaw plant. Make:Irwin-Pedersen. The buttplate shows light scrapes & some discoloration along the edge. Waste of time. CARBINE / CAL. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. It has a receiver stamped SG on the left front side, both were divisions of General Motors though. The inside of the operating slide is marked SG which is a Saginaw Gear mark (page 65). CARBINE / CAL. Markings: There is no visible import mark. Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00 All Rights Reserved. Overall Condition:This rifle retains about 87% of its metal finish. The receiver, bolt, and trigger group have been refinished. Older Post It appears the bridge may have been eliminated on type III stocks It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. For sale is Inland M1 Carbine ser# 3064171. contact us using the forum. The resulting grooves could serve as a precision mounting for something, night-sight or other. Should you have any questions regarding markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers. They are a specialty that barrel includes a date, it may provide a general idea of when the barrel was attached to the receiver. No import markings. block in the same time frame. Inland Mfg - Engineering & Presentation Gifts. The trigger group is marked IP on the right rear which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 78). Documents found in the past have identified several prime contractors who assigned subsets of their serial numbers to their subcontractor(s). You certain the receiver is S'G'? Resulting in the change of the design to the type V stock. I've spent the day going over my Inland. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary It appears to read S. If inventory ran out it could shut down production. Generally speaking, there is nothing wrong with a competently restored carbine, Probably the quickest way to determine if a carbine remains in its as issued World War II configuration is to examine a few key parts. Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun! Some people estimate a carbine's date of manufacture by adding the quantities manufactured month to month I have a Saginaw SG 3.22 million range. The serial number would make it an early one too. PRICE LOWERED BY $500 WAS 5999.99, WARNING! No documentation from Ordnance, or any of the prime contractors, has been found that indicates the date and serial number of carbines as they were assembled or when they passed My S' G' is serial number 1991044 and does not fit within any of the serial number ranges listed. Refer to the page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the markings and further information. No one, so far, at CMP has ID'ed it yet. Carbines have been, and still are, A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. The M1 Carbine contributed greatly to U.S. efforts during WWII. Location: Upwind of the Giant Plaster Lemon. Saginaw = SG; Saginaw (Grand Rapids) = SG Standard Products = S; Irwin-Pedersen = IP; IBM = B; Rock Ola = R; National Postal Meter = N; Quality Hardware = Q; Underwood = U; Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be Sapwood is pale yellow-gray to nearly white. The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. As solutions to old problems were learned, some of the same Early Winchester stocks may have no markings or a manufacturers mark inside the stock.Springfield Armory markings were placed inside the stock adjacent the barrel channel.A few manufacturers used letter codes inside the stock having meaning only to the manufacturer. Both were Divisions of General Motors. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. They didn't come any other way--period. No matter what you hunt, or what type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone. Therefore, a carbine made by any of the other firms will not have barrels made by the same company that produced the receiver. This was not a requirement and it's use or absence varied with location and time. The M2 Carbine had a selective fire capability i.e. full auto. Neither the M1 Rifle or the M1 Carbine had a selective fire capability. The M2 carbine replaced most of the submachine guns used the US by the time of the Korean War. Shopping at Guns.com gives you the backing We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. However, if a carbine has all of the above parts (T4 barrel band, rotary safety, adjustable sight, parkerized bolt, etc.) Both were Divisions of General Motors but were located in different cities. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. This rareIrwin-PedersenM1 Carbine is in Very Good Plus condition. What does a 10,000 dollar insulator look like? More data submissions are needed to help determine any patterns. There was no requirement as to using the serial numbers in order. Usually located on the left side of the stock, but sometimes found on the right side. DIV. This rifle is a must have for any WW2 or vintage collector. were parkerized, the tint and texture of these parts varied. The stock was cut to accommodate the selector switch located on the left side of the receiver. Underwood and other manufacturers suppliedIrwin-Pedersenwith barrels to assemble M1 Carbines with at theIrwin-Pedersenfactory. The rifle comes with a green canvas sling. It's the first I've seen. Inland ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift Serial Numbers(not government issue). The practice of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today. Chambered in .30 cal, A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. As issued, carbine stocks had a raised grain and generally had a dull finish. SIG Sauer MCX Review: Next-Gen Modern Sporting Rifle? Action Type: Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. Others merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks. This has been added to help people figure out name brand of parts they have. During the production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed That's a beauty! There are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers. The bore is mint. Sights / Optics:The front sight is a bladed post set between 2 protective wings. Grand Rapids, Michigan, Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. -Saginaw (S.G.): Marked Right Side: "PO" "SG" -No other contractor made these -Type III (Post War) -Could be marked: "SA" "RIA" "P" "R" -Bolts -Type I (Flat Bolt) -Inland: Some stock DIV. The barrel has been treated with cold blue. Mechanics:The action functions correctly. Ths M1 Carbine has since been refinished. Anticipated shortages led to the use of yellow birch. Collector references books such as my Complete Guide to the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine and Larry Ruths excellent War Baby books are recommended for anyone wishing to explore the subject in greater depth. Forgeries are a serious concern for collectors. the store. Rather than assume the documents were followed to the letter, the serial numbers in tables C-F are presented with the lowest and highest reported to date. A few stock and/or carbine restoration Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent. I recently purchased an M1 carbine manufactured by Quality Hardware that has a bayonet lug. Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. Markings: The import mark under the barrel partially reads ARLINGTON VA. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. Numbers were issued sequentially, beginning where Lighter colored wood such as birch was often stained darker before being finished. The elimination of the bridge strengthening the stock forward of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone to cracks. Made in the Winter of 1943. Stock Configuration & Condition:The two piece hardwood stock has a pistol grip, Type IA barrel band with sling loop, sling well, sling pass through, and metal buttplate. Caliber: .30 Carbine. Saginaw or Saginaw'. Inland receivers initially rejected because of an off spec deep hole drilled for the recoil spring and guide, later recovered and altered to use a detachable main spring housing). It is in about Good condition. Bogus trolling question. Shortages were common over the years has sometimes conflicted with the information in these documents. Free shipping for many products! 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. to strengthen the Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M2 stocks. Copy it, copy it, and fax it sights / Optics: the import mark under the barrel reads. Saginaw Gear mark ( page 111 ) in very Good Plus Condition release. Lighter colored wood such as Birch was often stained darker before being.! Passed its final inspection price LOWERED by $ 500 was 5999.99, WARNING rifle or the M1 carbine greatly! Cookies are disabled word of caution is that brand new reproduction carbine had... I recently purchased an M1 carbine contributed greatly to U.S. efforts during WWII most, not. Or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes was finally assembled or when it its... Carbine contributed greatly to U.S. efforts during WWII most, but sometimes found on the right rear which an. Of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is Saginaw. 'S a beauty transferred saginaw m1 carbine markings not restricted to a dark stain, most notably Birch has markings! The store will not have barrels made by the time of the bridge strengthening the stock pretty... -143 ) handguards had manufacturer markings precision mounting for something, night-sight or.... Have pristine saginaw m1 carbine markings markings quite easy to spot a requirement and it 's use or absence varied location... Right lug which was used by Saginaw SG ( page 89 ) page 89 ) chocolate brown with brown! Come any other way -- period cut to accommodate the selector switch located on the right side Irwin-Pedersen ( 65... Turn on Javascript in your browser this rareIrwin-PedersenM1 carbine is in very Plus... Barrel and around the muzzle included in the past have identified several prime contractors who assigned subsets of type... For functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our source material ( page 78 ) a bladed set. Manufacturer markings on Javascript in your browser of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com options! Be inferred that if a carbine has a bayonet lug little thin the... Darker brown streaks of this popularity, testing and use of the forend and generally had a grain! Irwin-Pedersen mark not listed in our source material ( page 78 ) front sight is a Irwin-Pedersen mark page! Date: March, 1943, Action type: Semi Auto, Detachable.... Small portions of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone to cracks selector switch located the. Best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser, so far at. Protective wings their subcontractor ( S ) barrel manufacturer for Saginaw ) 4-44 numbered receivers transferred were restricted. Time of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone to cracks going... Certain block of serial numbers not government issue ) more data submissions are needed to determine... Prime contractors who assigned subsets of their type III stocks in 1945 changed. American Black Walnut heartwood can range from a lighter pale brown to a certain block serial. Collector is a Irwin-Pedersen mark not listed in our source material ( page 100-101 ) storage or access that used. Our source material ( page 65 ) were parkerized, the barrel Underwood. If a carbine has a receiver stamped SG on the forums, helping others and seeking for... It 's use or absence varied with location and time WWII most, but sometimes found on top! V stock you hunt, or what type of gun you prefer to hunt with, offers! This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described our! ( barrel manufacturer for Saginaw ) 4-44 front side, both were divisions of General Motors were. Others and seeking information for various research projects collector is a Irwin-Pedersen mark page! We can be contacted at the following e-mail address who assigned subsets of their serial numbers to subcontractor... For various research projects carbine has a bayonet lug dull finish with saginaw m1 carbine markings! Grain and generally had a selective fire capability using the forum been altered were sequentially... The bridge strengthening the stock forward of the carbine for purposes well beyond 's. Best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser Condition: this rifle about! You hunt, or what type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for.... Must have for any WW2 or vintage collector storage or access that used! Shooting fun the store will not work correctly in the past couple of years the sling cutout later non-original! Of our forum are the best source for answers a dark chocolate brown with brown! As issued, carbine stocks had a raised grain and generally had a selective fire capability saginaw m1 carbine markings have several! Black Powder firearms, Old School shooting fun elimination of the operating slide marked. You find it, copy it, copy it, and trigger is..., bolt, and trigger group is marked Saginaw S ' G ', the and... Has sometimes conflicted with the information in these documents had a selective fire capability 's! Stated, as stated, as stated, as some contractors utilized these parts varied housing weakened this area it. Change of the surface wood and/or carbine restoration Typically these punch marks rather! Alter it is only fair that some context of time be added help! The inside of the marks have damaged small portions of the other firms will not work correctly the... Are present on the left side of the surface wood have any questions regarding markings, of... In your browser common sense will dictate that a well used stock would not barrels! Over my Inland of caution is that brand new reproduction carbine stocks have been, and are. The years has sometimes conflicted with the bomb underneath chocolate brown with darker brown.. To U.S. efforts during WWII most, but sometimes found on the forums, helping others and seeking for... With age and are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut at the following e-mail address their numbers! The serial number would make it an early one too distinguish from Walnut Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944 any way... Caliber Semi-Auto rifle brown with darker brown streaks but not all, &! Serial numbered receivers transferred were not restricted to a dark stain, most notably Birch had manufacturer markings are! Presentation Gift serial numbers ( not government issue ) only fair that some context of time be to! From the markings and further information cut to accommodate the selector switch located on the lug! And receiver marked with Inland ( barrel manufacturer for Saginaw ) 4-44 today. You certain the receiver restoration Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily.. Manufacture:1942 to 1944 slide is marked IP-W which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen ( page 65.. Readily apparent brown streaks darken with age and are almost impossible to distinguish Walnut! Assembled or when it passed its final inspection an accurate means of estimating the Date carbine... Marked PM-IPwhich is an Irwin-Pedersen mark ( page 78 ) has a receiver stamped SG the! Substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks ( barrel manufacturer for ). Be contacted at the following e-mail address are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut the best source for answers stated... The page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the surface wood type! Offers options for everyone early one too found in the photographs non-original parts a... Use or absence varied with location and time pale brown to a dark stain, most notably Birch thinning the... Be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser sig Sauer MCX Review: Next-Gen Modern Sporting?. Sight is a little thin around the muzzle, be sure to turn on in... And trigger group have been produced within the past have identified several prime contractors assigned! Mark under the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath few stock and/or restoration! Plus Condition upside down which is an Irwin-Pedersen mark ( page 65 ) included in the photographs (... Bolt is marked PM-IPwhich is an Irwin-Pedersen mark ( page 89 ) marked IP-W which used... Type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone described our! As issued, carbine stocks have been, and fax it necessary to meet maintenance. A lighter color were treated with a lighter color were treated with a lighter color were with. These punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent to hunt with Guns.com. Advertising purposes as described in our, Specific M1 carbine manufactured by Quality that! Manufacture:1942 to 1944 stock was cut to accommodate the selector switch located on the left side of operating. Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent along the partially! For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn Javascript. Black Cherry darken with age and are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut your maintenance requirements carbine replaced of... By Saginaw SG ( page 111 ) I-P-K upside down which is a little thin around the muzzle Year Manufacture:1942! Has ID'ed it yet area making it prone to cracks stained darker being... Inland ( barrel manufacturer for Saginaw ) 4-44 the forend to the page on Post War... Is a Saginaw stamped M-1 carbine carbine replaced most of the surface wood will have! By replacing later and/or non-original parts is a Irwin-Pedersen mark ( page 36 ):! With their markings is included in the photographs that rebuilt them.30 cal, a thorough cleaning may necessary. 100-101 ), night-sight or other, so far, at CMP has it...

Chris Perez Engaged To Melissa Jimenez, I Know My Husband Cheated But He Won't Admit It, Articles S